Shifting between bemols (flats) and diesis (sharps)in the key signature
I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.
I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
theory key key-signatures
New contributor
add a comment |
I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.
I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
theory key key-signatures
New contributor
1
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago
add a comment |
I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.
I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
theory key key-signatures
New contributor
I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.
I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
theory key key-signatures
theory key key-signatures
New contributor
New contributor
edited 4 mins ago
user45266
3,3621733
3,3621733
New contributor
asked 9 hours ago
ZackyZacky
1164
1164
New contributor
New contributor
1
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago
1
1
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.
In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.
So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.
You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.
This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!
Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.
Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
There isn’t a name for this phenomen. But we can find one. In German I would call them “gleichnamige” Tonarten, in English this would be “same named” keys.
(Now, as we know they are not exactly the same name, as the “related” key*1) has added a -bemol (flat) and is a half tone lower!)
The phenomen can be explained quite simply by the circle of fifths and by the tones of the twelve
tone scale (fixed do names!)
Do, Re-bemol, Re, Mi-bemol, Mi, Fa, Fa#/Sol-bemol, Sol, La-bemol, La, Si-bemol, Si.
Of each tone of the doremi scale exist two keys: one on the -bemol site (flats) and the -diesis (sharps) site. The two keys with the same name are differing logically a minor second respectively 7 fifths
and can be played by exchanging the amount of # with the amount of b of its same named (“related”) key:
So this “related” keys in question are:
Si-bemol (2bemol) and Si (5#)
analogically we get (starting with Re-bemol):
Re-bemol and Re
La-bemol and La
Mi-bemol and Mi
Si-bemol and Si
Fa and Fa#
Do and Do# (Re-bemol)
Sol and Sol# (La-bemol)
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.
In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.
So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.
You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.
This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!
Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.
Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.
In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.
So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.
You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.
This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!
Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.
Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.
In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.
So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.
You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.
This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!
Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.
Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.
I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.
In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.
So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.
You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.
This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!
Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.
Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.
answered 9 hours ago
RichardRichard
42.6k696183
42.6k696183
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
– Zacky
9 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
@Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
1
1
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
+1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
@badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
– Tim
7 hours ago
1
1
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
@Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
– badjohn
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
There isn’t a name for this phenomen. But we can find one. In German I would call them “gleichnamige” Tonarten, in English this would be “same named” keys.
(Now, as we know they are not exactly the same name, as the “related” key*1) has added a -bemol (flat) and is a half tone lower!)
The phenomen can be explained quite simply by the circle of fifths and by the tones of the twelve
tone scale (fixed do names!)
Do, Re-bemol, Re, Mi-bemol, Mi, Fa, Fa#/Sol-bemol, Sol, La-bemol, La, Si-bemol, Si.
Of each tone of the doremi scale exist two keys: one on the -bemol site (flats) and the -diesis (sharps) site. The two keys with the same name are differing logically a minor second respectively 7 fifths
and can be played by exchanging the amount of # with the amount of b of its same named (“related”) key:
So this “related” keys in question are:
Si-bemol (2bemol) and Si (5#)
analogically we get (starting with Re-bemol):
Re-bemol and Re
La-bemol and La
Mi-bemol and Mi
Si-bemol and Si
Fa and Fa#
Do and Do# (Re-bemol)
Sol and Sol# (La-bemol)
add a comment |
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
There isn’t a name for this phenomen. But we can find one. In German I would call them “gleichnamige” Tonarten, in English this would be “same named” keys.
(Now, as we know they are not exactly the same name, as the “related” key*1) has added a -bemol (flat) and is a half tone lower!)
The phenomen can be explained quite simply by the circle of fifths and by the tones of the twelve
tone scale (fixed do names!)
Do, Re-bemol, Re, Mi-bemol, Mi, Fa, Fa#/Sol-bemol, Sol, La-bemol, La, Si-bemol, Si.
Of each tone of the doremi scale exist two keys: one on the -bemol site (flats) and the -diesis (sharps) site. The two keys with the same name are differing logically a minor second respectively 7 fifths
and can be played by exchanging the amount of # with the amount of b of its same named (“related”) key:
So this “related” keys in question are:
Si-bemol (2bemol) and Si (5#)
analogically we get (starting with Re-bemol):
Re-bemol and Re
La-bemol and La
Mi-bemol and Mi
Si-bemol and Si
Fa and Fa#
Do and Do# (Re-bemol)
Sol and Sol# (La-bemol)
add a comment |
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
There isn’t a name for this phenomen. But we can find one. In German I would call them “gleichnamige” Tonarten, in English this would be “same named” keys.
(Now, as we know they are not exactly the same name, as the “related” key*1) has added a -bemol (flat) and is a half tone lower!)
The phenomen can be explained quite simply by the circle of fifths and by the tones of the twelve
tone scale (fixed do names!)
Do, Re-bemol, Re, Mi-bemol, Mi, Fa, Fa#/Sol-bemol, Sol, La-bemol, La, Si-bemol, Si.
Of each tone of the doremi scale exist two keys: one on the -bemol site (flats) and the -diesis (sharps) site. The two keys with the same name are differing logically a minor second respectively 7 fifths
and can be played by exchanging the amount of # with the amount of b of its same named (“related”) key:
So this “related” keys in question are:
Si-bemol (2bemol) and Si (5#)
analogically we get (starting with Re-bemol):
Re-bemol and Re
La-bemol and La
Mi-bemol and Mi
Si-bemol and Si
Fa and Fa#
Do and Do# (Re-bemol)
Sol and Sol# (La-bemol)
I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?
There isn’t a name for this phenomen. But we can find one. In German I would call them “gleichnamige” Tonarten, in English this would be “same named” keys.
(Now, as we know they are not exactly the same name, as the “related” key*1) has added a -bemol (flat) and is a half tone lower!)
The phenomen can be explained quite simply by the circle of fifths and by the tones of the twelve
tone scale (fixed do names!)
Do, Re-bemol, Re, Mi-bemol, Mi, Fa, Fa#/Sol-bemol, Sol, La-bemol, La, Si-bemol, Si.
Of each tone of the doremi scale exist two keys: one on the -bemol site (flats) and the -diesis (sharps) site. The two keys with the same name are differing logically a minor second respectively 7 fifths
and can be played by exchanging the amount of # with the amount of b of its same named (“related”) key:
So this “related” keys in question are:
Si-bemol (2bemol) and Si (5#)
analogically we get (starting with Re-bemol):
Re-bemol and Re
La-bemol and La
Mi-bemol and Mi
Si-bemol and Si
Fa and Fa#
Do and Do# (Re-bemol)
Sol and Sol# (La-bemol)
answered 3 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
3,080220
3,080220
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Zacky is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Zacky is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Zacky is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Zacky is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
– Zacky
8 hours ago
So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
– Todd Wilcox
8 hours ago
Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
– Zacky
8 hours ago