Can neural cryptanalysis be applied to AES?












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In this Wikipedia article about Neural cryptography (section applications) it states:




In 1995, Sebastien Dourlens applied neural networks to cryptanalyze DES by allowing the networks to learn how to invert the S-tables of the DES. The bias in DES studied through Differential Cryptanalysis by Adi Shamir is highlighted. The experiment shows about 50% of the key bits can be found, allowing the complete key to be found in a short time.




It could very well be that I misunderstood something, but I think that the same "attack" can't be used for AES, since the Inverse Rijndael S-box is public knowledge or am I wrong? Is AES designed this way to prevent an attack by inverting the S-box?






aes cryptanalysis des rijndael







share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
    $endgroup$
    – forest
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
    $endgroup$
    – Ella Rose♦
    11 hours ago
















8












$begingroup$


In this Wikipedia article about Neural cryptography (section applications) it states:




In 1995, Sebastien Dourlens applied neural networks to cryptanalyze DES by allowing the networks to learn how to invert the S-tables of the DES. The bias in DES studied through Differential Cryptanalysis by Adi Shamir is highlighted. The experiment shows about 50% of the key bits can be found, allowing the complete key to be found in a short time.




It could very well be that I misunderstood something, but I think that the same "attack" can't be used for AES, since the Inverse Rijndael S-box is public knowledge or am I wrong? Is AES designed this way to prevent an attack by inverting the S-box?






aes cryptanalysis des rijndael







share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
    $endgroup$
    – forest
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
    $endgroup$
    – Ella Rose♦
    11 hours ago














8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


In this Wikipedia article about Neural cryptography (section applications) it states:




In 1995, Sebastien Dourlens applied neural networks to cryptanalyze DES by allowing the networks to learn how to invert the S-tables of the DES. The bias in DES studied through Differential Cryptanalysis by Adi Shamir is highlighted. The experiment shows about 50% of the key bits can be found, allowing the complete key to be found in a short time.




It could very well be that I misunderstood something, but I think that the same "attack" can't be used for AES, since the Inverse Rijndael S-box is public knowledge or am I wrong? Is AES designed this way to prevent an attack by inverting the S-box?






aes cryptanalysis des rijndael







share|improve this question









$endgroup$




In this Wikipedia article about Neural cryptography (section applications) it states:




In 1995, Sebastien Dourlens applied neural networks to cryptanalyze DES by allowing the networks to learn how to invert the S-tables of the DES. The bias in DES studied through Differential Cryptanalysis by Adi Shamir is highlighted. The experiment shows about 50% of the key bits can be found, allowing the complete key to be found in a short time.




It could very well be that I misunderstood something, but I think that the same "attack" can't be used for AES, since the Inverse Rijndael S-box is public knowledge or am I wrong? Is AES designed this way to prevent an attack by inverting the S-box?






aes cryptanalysis des rijndael




aes cryptanalysis des rijndael






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 14 hours ago









AleksanderRasAleksanderRas

2,3421731




2,3421731








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
    $endgroup$
    – forest
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
    $endgroup$
    – Ella Rose♦
    11 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
    $endgroup$
    – forest
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
    $endgroup$
    – Ella Rose♦
    11 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
$endgroup$
– forest
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
The inverse S-box is useless if you don't have the key.
$endgroup$
– forest
14 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
$endgroup$
– Ella Rose♦
11 hours ago




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Any practical uses for machine learning for cryptography?
$endgroup$
– Ella Rose♦
11 hours ago










1 Answer
1






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$begingroup$

No. Neuro-Cryptanalysis fails on serious ciphers, including DES and AES.



Sebastien Dourlens's Neuro-differential cryptanalysis of DES (in sections 5.4.2 and 5.4.3 of his 1996 mémoire) learns an S-box. Applied to Unix crypt (section 5.4.4), it memorizes passwords/hash pairs (by a training requiring "from several days to several years") and then merely performs a quick retrieval; something a hash table does routinely and quickly! Neither is relevant to cryptanalysis.



Mohammed M. Alani's Neuro-Cryptanalysis of DES and Triple-DES (in proceedings of ICONIP 2012) claims cryptanalysis of DES or 3DES from 2048 or 4096 examples in an hour of Matlab on a standard PC; but there is no indication that it recovers the key or is otherwise capable of predicting more input/output mappings than supplied in training (even though the later is a stated objective). My guess is that - at best - it performs similar plaintext/ciphertext memorization thru training.






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    $begingroup$

    No. Neuro-Cryptanalysis fails on serious ciphers, including DES and AES.



    Sebastien Dourlens's Neuro-differential cryptanalysis of DES (in sections 5.4.2 and 5.4.3 of his 1996 mémoire) learns an S-box. Applied to Unix crypt (section 5.4.4), it memorizes passwords/hash pairs (by a training requiring "from several days to several years") and then merely performs a quick retrieval; something a hash table does routinely and quickly! Neither is relevant to cryptanalysis.



    Mohammed M. Alani's Neuro-Cryptanalysis of DES and Triple-DES (in proceedings of ICONIP 2012) claims cryptanalysis of DES or 3DES from 2048 or 4096 examples in an hour of Matlab on a standard PC; but there is no indication that it recovers the key or is otherwise capable of predicting more input/output mappings than supplied in training (even though the later is a stated objective). My guess is that - at best - it performs similar plaintext/ciphertext memorization thru training.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      20












      $begingroup$

      No. Neuro-Cryptanalysis fails on serious ciphers, including DES and AES.



      Sebastien Dourlens's Neuro-differential cryptanalysis of DES (in sections 5.4.2 and 5.4.3 of his 1996 mémoire) learns an S-box. Applied to Unix crypt (section 5.4.4), it memorizes passwords/hash pairs (by a training requiring "from several days to several years") and then merely performs a quick retrieval; something a hash table does routinely and quickly! Neither is relevant to cryptanalysis.



      Mohammed M. Alani's Neuro-Cryptanalysis of DES and Triple-DES (in proceedings of ICONIP 2012) claims cryptanalysis of DES or 3DES from 2048 or 4096 examples in an hour of Matlab on a standard PC; but there is no indication that it recovers the key or is otherwise capable of predicting more input/output mappings than supplied in training (even though the later is a stated objective). My guess is that - at best - it performs similar plaintext/ciphertext memorization thru training.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        20












        20








        20





        $begingroup$

        No. Neuro-Cryptanalysis fails on serious ciphers, including DES and AES.



        Sebastien Dourlens's Neuro-differential cryptanalysis of DES (in sections 5.4.2 and 5.4.3 of his 1996 mémoire) learns an S-box. Applied to Unix crypt (section 5.4.4), it memorizes passwords/hash pairs (by a training requiring "from several days to several years") and then merely performs a quick retrieval; something a hash table does routinely and quickly! Neither is relevant to cryptanalysis.



        Mohammed M. Alani's Neuro-Cryptanalysis of DES and Triple-DES (in proceedings of ICONIP 2012) claims cryptanalysis of DES or 3DES from 2048 or 4096 examples in an hour of Matlab on a standard PC; but there is no indication that it recovers the key or is otherwise capable of predicting more input/output mappings than supplied in training (even though the later is a stated objective). My guess is that - at best - it performs similar plaintext/ciphertext memorization thru training.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        No. Neuro-Cryptanalysis fails on serious ciphers, including DES and AES.



        Sebastien Dourlens's Neuro-differential cryptanalysis of DES (in sections 5.4.2 and 5.4.3 of his 1996 mémoire) learns an S-box. Applied to Unix crypt (section 5.4.4), it memorizes passwords/hash pairs (by a training requiring "from several days to several years") and then merely performs a quick retrieval; something a hash table does routinely and quickly! Neither is relevant to cryptanalysis.



        Mohammed M. Alani's Neuro-Cryptanalysis of DES and Triple-DES (in proceedings of ICONIP 2012) claims cryptanalysis of DES or 3DES from 2048 or 4096 examples in an hour of Matlab on a standard PC; but there is no indication that it recovers the key or is otherwise capable of predicting more input/output mappings than supplied in training (even though the later is a stated objective). My guess is that - at best - it performs similar plaintext/ciphertext memorization thru training.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 12 hours ago









        Maarten Bodewes♦

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        54.8k679194










        answered 13 hours ago









        fgrieufgrieu

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        80.2k7171338






























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