How to fly a direct entry holding pattern when approaching from an awkward angle?












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If my course lies anywhere between 30 deg. adjacent to the 'direct entry' sector borders, do I fly the holding pattern as depicted below?



...






holding







share|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    2












    $begingroup$


    If my course lies anywhere between 30 deg. adjacent to the 'direct entry' sector borders, do I fly the holding pattern as depicted below?



    ...






    holding







    share|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      If my course lies anywhere between 30 deg. adjacent to the 'direct entry' sector borders, do I fly the holding pattern as depicted below?



      ...






      holding







      share|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      If my course lies anywhere between 30 deg. adjacent to the 'direct entry' sector borders, do I fly the holding pattern as depicted below?



      ...






      holding




      holding






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 4 hours ago









      177177

      1014




      1014






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          2












          $begingroup$

          The answer is yes, you would enter holding just as you depicted.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            2












            $begingroup$

            To add to Michael Hall's answer, the direct entry is the one where you get straight on to the "racetrack" with minimum maneuvering and that is possible from anywhere within the direct entry sector. The other two entries involve initial maneuvering "off the racetrack" so to speak.



            That entry diagram is a procedural convention, not a hard regulation you must follow exactly. The whole area is protected airspace, so it's not all that critical that you fly exactly this or exactly that as long as you stay in the protected airspace. You'll get dinged on a check ride for using a bad entry (using a sector's procedure while significantly outside of the boundary of that sector), but ATC would never bust you because you didn't follow the entry protocol perfectly, as long as you didn't leave the protected airspace and you got established properly without too much meandering around.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$





















              -1












              $begingroup$

              The red arrow has me a little worried, as it cuts across 2 lanes of traffic in the pattern plus potentially a third if another plane was blue. I might try, if possible, to over fly the pattern and drop into the blue "slot" with a right turn, still above the pattern altitude. Look and see.



              If clear, make a descending right turn into the pattern, entering at a 45 degree angle outside the pattern. This gives you an extra few looks and keeps you further away from departing traffic.



              If not, circle higher up until clear. There should be no awkward angle is you use some
              vertical and circle.



              It would be very helpful to check with the airport and their normal traffic patterns, as these can vary, and practice with your instructor.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$









              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                $endgroup$
                – John K
                49 mins ago










              • $begingroup$
                From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                $endgroup$
                – Robert DiGiovanni
                49 mins ago










              • $begingroup$
                @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                $endgroup$
                – Robert DiGiovanni
                43 mins ago






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                $endgroup$
                – John K
                38 mins ago










              • $begingroup$
                Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                $endgroup$
                – Robert DiGiovanni
                12 mins ago











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              3 Answers
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              3 Answers
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              2












              $begingroup$

              The answer is yes, you would enter holding just as you depicted.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                2












                $begingroup$

                The answer is yes, you would enter holding just as you depicted.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  The answer is yes, you would enter holding just as you depicted.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The answer is yes, you would enter holding just as you depicted.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Michael HallMichael Hall

                  1,391412




                  1,391412























                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      To add to Michael Hall's answer, the direct entry is the one where you get straight on to the "racetrack" with minimum maneuvering and that is possible from anywhere within the direct entry sector. The other two entries involve initial maneuvering "off the racetrack" so to speak.



                      That entry diagram is a procedural convention, not a hard regulation you must follow exactly. The whole area is protected airspace, so it's not all that critical that you fly exactly this or exactly that as long as you stay in the protected airspace. You'll get dinged on a check ride for using a bad entry (using a sector's procedure while significantly outside of the boundary of that sector), but ATC would never bust you because you didn't follow the entry protocol perfectly, as long as you didn't leave the protected airspace and you got established properly without too much meandering around.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        To add to Michael Hall's answer, the direct entry is the one where you get straight on to the "racetrack" with minimum maneuvering and that is possible from anywhere within the direct entry sector. The other two entries involve initial maneuvering "off the racetrack" so to speak.



                        That entry diagram is a procedural convention, not a hard regulation you must follow exactly. The whole area is protected airspace, so it's not all that critical that you fly exactly this or exactly that as long as you stay in the protected airspace. You'll get dinged on a check ride for using a bad entry (using a sector's procedure while significantly outside of the boundary of that sector), but ATC would never bust you because you didn't follow the entry protocol perfectly, as long as you didn't leave the protected airspace and you got established properly without too much meandering around.






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          2












                          2








                          2





                          $begingroup$

                          To add to Michael Hall's answer, the direct entry is the one where you get straight on to the "racetrack" with minimum maneuvering and that is possible from anywhere within the direct entry sector. The other two entries involve initial maneuvering "off the racetrack" so to speak.



                          That entry diagram is a procedural convention, not a hard regulation you must follow exactly. The whole area is protected airspace, so it's not all that critical that you fly exactly this or exactly that as long as you stay in the protected airspace. You'll get dinged on a check ride for using a bad entry (using a sector's procedure while significantly outside of the boundary of that sector), but ATC would never bust you because you didn't follow the entry protocol perfectly, as long as you didn't leave the protected airspace and you got established properly without too much meandering around.






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          To add to Michael Hall's answer, the direct entry is the one where you get straight on to the "racetrack" with minimum maneuvering and that is possible from anywhere within the direct entry sector. The other two entries involve initial maneuvering "off the racetrack" so to speak.



                          That entry diagram is a procedural convention, not a hard regulation you must follow exactly. The whole area is protected airspace, so it's not all that critical that you fly exactly this or exactly that as long as you stay in the protected airspace. You'll get dinged on a check ride for using a bad entry (using a sector's procedure while significantly outside of the boundary of that sector), but ATC would never bust you because you didn't follow the entry protocol perfectly, as long as you didn't leave the protected airspace and you got established properly without too much meandering around.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 26 mins ago









                          John KJohn K

                          19.3k12355




                          19.3k12355























                              -1












                              $begingroup$

                              The red arrow has me a little worried, as it cuts across 2 lanes of traffic in the pattern plus potentially a third if another plane was blue. I might try, if possible, to over fly the pattern and drop into the blue "slot" with a right turn, still above the pattern altitude. Look and see.



                              If clear, make a descending right turn into the pattern, entering at a 45 degree angle outside the pattern. This gives you an extra few looks and keeps you further away from departing traffic.



                              If not, circle higher up until clear. There should be no awkward angle is you use some
                              vertical and circle.



                              It would be very helpful to check with the airport and their normal traffic patterns, as these can vary, and practice with your instructor.






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$









                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                43 mins ago






                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                38 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                12 mins ago
















                              -1












                              $begingroup$

                              The red arrow has me a little worried, as it cuts across 2 lanes of traffic in the pattern plus potentially a third if another plane was blue. I might try, if possible, to over fly the pattern and drop into the blue "slot" with a right turn, still above the pattern altitude. Look and see.



                              If clear, make a descending right turn into the pattern, entering at a 45 degree angle outside the pattern. This gives you an extra few looks and keeps you further away from departing traffic.



                              If not, circle higher up until clear. There should be no awkward angle is you use some
                              vertical and circle.



                              It would be very helpful to check with the airport and their normal traffic patterns, as these can vary, and practice with your instructor.






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$









                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                43 mins ago






                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                38 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                12 mins ago














                              -1












                              -1








                              -1





                              $begingroup$

                              The red arrow has me a little worried, as it cuts across 2 lanes of traffic in the pattern plus potentially a third if another plane was blue. I might try, if possible, to over fly the pattern and drop into the blue "slot" with a right turn, still above the pattern altitude. Look and see.



                              If clear, make a descending right turn into the pattern, entering at a 45 degree angle outside the pattern. This gives you an extra few looks and keeps you further away from departing traffic.



                              If not, circle higher up until clear. There should be no awkward angle is you use some
                              vertical and circle.



                              It would be very helpful to check with the airport and their normal traffic patterns, as these can vary, and practice with your instructor.






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              The red arrow has me a little worried, as it cuts across 2 lanes of traffic in the pattern plus potentially a third if another plane was blue. I might try, if possible, to over fly the pattern and drop into the blue "slot" with a right turn, still above the pattern altitude. Look and see.



                              If clear, make a descending right turn into the pattern, entering at a 45 degree angle outside the pattern. This gives you an extra few looks and keeps you further away from departing traffic.



                              If not, circle higher up until clear. There should be no awkward angle is you use some
                              vertical and circle.



                              It would be very helpful to check with the airport and their normal traffic patterns, as these can vary, and practice with your instructor.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 53 mins ago









                              Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni

                              2,2291316




                              2,2291316








                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                43 mins ago






                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                38 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                12 mins ago














                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                49 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                43 mins ago






                              • 1




                                $begingroup$
                                Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                                $endgroup$
                                – John K
                                38 mins ago










                              • $begingroup$
                                Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                                $endgroup$
                                – Robert DiGiovanni
                                12 mins ago








                              1




                              1




                              $begingroup$
                              @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                              $endgroup$
                              – John K
                              49 mins ago




                              $begingroup$
                              @ Robert DiGiovanni that's an instrument hold entry not an airport traffic pattern or circuit entry.
                              $endgroup$
                              – John K
                              49 mins ago












                              $begingroup$
                              From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              49 mins ago




                              $begingroup$
                              From red you can also over fly and make a descending left turn into a 45 degree entry if traffic allows.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              49 mins ago












                              $begingroup$
                              @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              43 mins ago




                              $begingroup$
                              @ John K would the aircraft be under traffic control for an instrument hold entry?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              43 mins ago




                              1




                              1




                              $begingroup$
                              Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                              $endgroup$
                              – John K
                              38 mins ago




                              $begingroup$
                              Yes it's an ATC clearance but generally you won't be close to an airport, and could be anywhere. You will just be cleared with instructions on what is the hold fix, and if not to an existing published hold, you will get the direction of the inbound hold track and whether it is a right or left racetrack pattern in the hold, and the time to expect a clearance out of the hold (this in case of comm failure). How you enter it is totally up to you. The entry sectors are a procedural convention, not a regulation.
                              $endgroup$
                              – John K
                              38 mins ago












                              $begingroup$
                              Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              12 mins ago




                              $begingroup$
                              Very good video on this at MzeroA.com. Thanks!
                              $endgroup$
                              – Robert DiGiovanni
                              12 mins ago


















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